View source for Talk:740 - The Words and Deeds of the US Deep State (Fletcher Prouty, JFK, Vietnam, The Secret Team, Snowden Affair, BBG, The Underground Reich)

== Evidence -- [[User:Criegod|Criegod]] ([[User talk:Criegod|talk]]) 17:05, 8 August 2017 (PDT) ==

I admit that i haven't listened to the full episode with full attention.  But i have "listened" to it, then went to Emory's ''For the Record'' program and listened to episode 902 (same "patchy" attention).  I hadn't known about Gehlen's connection to Radio Free Europe but... i was looking for something that would tell me something i didn't know about Edward Snowden and "l'Affaire Snowden".  Particularly since some very definite statements about this were made as a deep-state operation.  However, i didn't hear *any evidence*.  Snowden has always seemed authentic to me.  Considering the whole affair from start to finish, nothing ever particularly struck me as not smelling right.  But in line with understanding that the rabbit hole can always go deeper, i approach the subject with an open mind.  Only... *no evidence* (that i heard).

So, this episode is pretty much a big zip for me.  I had already read a fair amount about the Gehlen organization so that wasn't what drew my attention to this episode.  Having listened to stuff that i already (mostly) knew (and that, therefore, didn't really work to hold my sustained attention) i profess myself disappointed with this episode.  I came for something but got nothing that i came for.

Anyone have a different opinion?  Did i miss something?

Addendum: Also... i gather that the subtext of much of the information presented about Gehlen and his organization was its *infiltration* of the U.S. government.  From [http://spitfirelist.com/for-the-record/ftr-902-the-underground-reich-and-the-deep-politics-of-the-cia-privacy-advocates-update-on-the-adventures-of-eddie-the-friendly-spook/]:

''"...analysis of the Gehlen “Org” and its primary role as a Trojan Horse enabling Underground Reich penetration of the United States."''

This, also, seems dubious to me (assuming that the word "penetration" means something more than just "association" (as in "working *for*"). From the same link (above):

''"...A network of former Nazi intelligence agents, the majority of whom were members of the SS, began working out of offices at Camp King side by side with army intelligence officers. ... The Gehlen Organization was a murderous bunch, ‘free-wheeling’ and out of control... The army became fed up with the Gehlen Organization, but there was no way out. Its operatives were professional double-crossers and liars – many were also alleged war criminals – and now they had the army over a barrel..."
''

When i heard this, i longed to know *how* they could (possibly) have had the army "over a barrel"?  But no indication is given.  Simply because they were "double-crossers and liars" seems rather doubtful to me.  Anyway, it seems quite dubious to me that the Gehlen Organization infiltrated any U.S. organization in any meaningful way... meaning that they exerted some *control* or *influence* inside the organization, *steering* the organization in a direction they wouldn't otherwise have gone.  Re Dulles and his ilk, i don't see a whole lot of difference between them and the Nazis, so i don't consider, as evidence, simply noting how similarly they thought and behaved.  For me, that's not evidence of infiltration, but like-mindedness.